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Post by mpowerptg on Aug 31, 2008 14:03:20 GMT -5
Glad to see there is somewhere to talk, learn alittle about e 85. i just did a conversion carb for my AMX dragcar. and have a few questions, as i have not had it to the track yet. i did the carb myself with the QF plate kit, on a 800 holley methanol center, gas set up was a 850 w/ 80p 86s, and a 6.5 pv in the pri. ran 10.40 @ 128, e 85 carb is set up @ 94 square w/6.5 pv front and rear, car starts ,and idles great, takes thottle very nice, do you think this is safe enough for a starting point? i would rather start alittle rich, what kind of perfomance gains should i expect? thanks for you help,
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Post by Heath Daniel on Sept 2, 2008 15:20:28 GMT -5
Welcome mpowerptg. Sounds like you have a great piece to start with. There are a couple things I would check before you hit the track. The methanol main body will leave you room to grow performance wise as long as the boosters aren't to big for what you are running right now. A good booster for running E85 is in the .160 to .180 range. If you say its idling good and taking the fuel good then you’re probably okay. Check your vacuum at idle and in gear to verify you have the correct number power valve in it. Whatever your vacuum reading is go 1.5 to 2 number below that and that's your ideal power valve number. Then check your hi-speed air bleeds (these are the ones on top of the main body closest to the accelerator pump shooters). Methanol usually uses a smaller bleed then you would need for E85. Quick Fuels does a great job getting in all the right emulsion jets, you just need to make sure your hi-speed in between 25 and 28 to work good on E85. If it's taking the fuel your shooters are okay. Your jetting sounds like it is on the fat side so hit the track and see what you got. Most people pick up at least a tenth of a second and 2 to 3 mph in the 1/8th after they convert from race gas to E85. Thanks for writing in and hope to hear from you soon on the results.
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Post by mpowerptg on Sept 7, 2008 22:27:50 GMT -5
ok, i need some help, went to the track today. the car starts great, drives around the pits fine,look like the temp is down where i want it to be. first pass pull into the water box, i shift to second on the burn out as always, rev to 6500 both gears, drive out, works great, stage, launch, car 60fts hard, pull great through first gear, shift to second, starts to missfire, shift to third, same missfire, runs very bad, as i lifted. set up is as i posted before. i thought i was on the rich side? so, change jets to 90 square, same pv, second pass same as first. ok, i went the wrong way? went to 96 square, car is so rich i cant drive around the pits. put the gas carb back on, went 3 passes .002 apart , what am i missing?? any help? thanks for any input.
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Post by Heath Daniel on Sept 8, 2008 9:34:36 GMT -5
wpowerptg glad to see you hitting the track with E85. Based on what your describing it sounds like a classic running out of fuel situation. We haven't talked about your pump or how you have it plumbed. What pump are you running? What size lines? What fuel filter? What regulator and how do you have it plumbed? I would say you were very close on your jetting the first time you are just not keeping the float bowls filled up so it can't run after it sucks all the fuel out through first gear. Your float level has a lot to do with this also. You have to set them with the fuel up to the window (or hole) in your float bowl; any lower and it will run out of fuel. I don't think this has anything to do with how it's running but did you verify your hi-speed air bleed size? But if it ran strong through first then I'm sure it's a fuel delivery issue and not so much a carb. issue.
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Post by mpowerptg on Sept 9, 2008 20:22:48 GMT -5
the hi speed air bleeds are .025, the fuel system is 2 -8 out of the cell, t to -10 then in the pump[BG 280] -8 to the front of the car into a high flow 2 port reg, -8 from reg to carb. flow tested through the regulator, flow is 3 gallon per min.or 180 gph to the carb. i did ck the float levels 2 time at the track and if i remove the sight plug fuel dribbles out the bottom of the hole[ looks right to me] . i was thinking maybe the main body[to big] being a methanol piece and maybe the QF blocks are more for a gas main body? any sugestions? thanks for your help
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Post by Heath Daniel on Sept 9, 2008 22:20:12 GMT -5
mpowerptg we're going to get this deal figured out before long. Did you change your needle and seats? I took that for granted at first when you said you did your own conversion. You did put in at least .130 stainless steel needle and seats didn't you? Your fuel system defiantly sounds like it is up to the task but if it can't get into your float bowls fast enough it's all for not. Don't give up, this isn't rocket science, we'll get you straightened out. My "kit" comes with Quick Fuels metering blocks, .130 ss needle and seats, .025 hi-speed air bleeds, green accelerator pump diaphragms, hollow accelerator nozzle screws and a high flow power valve or valves (if you run them) with directions that tell you to jet it up 8 to 10 numbers over your gas setting. I have guys that buy and install kits then go out and win the first race out. If you need any parts just let me know, I keep most everything on hand all the time.
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Post by mpowerptg on Sept 10, 2008 13:19:23 GMT -5
so you think 180gph is fine? i have herd 240gph, but that seems like alot. i do have .130 needles, but going to install new .150 for this weekend. what do you think about the main body, as i have a good gas one to try, 850 4 corrrner idle, stock gas air bleeds, ill measure to be sure of what they are. i belive the QF plate may work better in the gas main body? but sure dose start run nicley the way it is, thanks for your help.
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Post by mpowerptg on Sept 10, 2008 13:21:50 GMT -5
also, i did install the green diaphrams, and green seals on everything. also, i am running power valves front and rear, as this seems to help the over run fuel cut.
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Post by Heath Daniel on Sept 10, 2008 16:05:13 GMT -5
The .130 needle and seats should be all you need. There is a chance that the boosters are just to big and the fuel is more of less just falling through the carb. and not atomizing like it should. This could explain why it runs so good when it's at idle because the boosters are out of the equation then. Also on your power valves, are you using the hi-flow type? We run power valves too and they are the four door type. You really have to be careful when you are installing power valves because if you don't get the gasket seated just right it will pull fuel past it and basically flood the engine. The best way to do this is hold the metering block flat and screw the power valve in from the bottom like you were screwing a light bulb into the ceiling. These allows the gasket to center itself. If you swap to the gas main body this would change the booster size and that may be all you need to do. I would try that and see what difference it makes and go from there. Thanks and keep us posted on the results.
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Post by mpowerptg on Sept 15, 2008 21:42:07 GMT -5
went to the track on sunday, leaned out the jets 2 sizes on the primary, 2 on the secondary and removed the secondary power valve, made the first pass, same results as last weekend. swaped out the main body to a 750 gas center, same set up ,car went down th track smooth all the way , we were at 1400 feet and went a 10.49 @128, last week on gas 740 feet 10.56@126, made two more passes and backed up within .002. think i got it working, i think the 750 center is alittle small for my motor, and also think it might like alittle more jet, going to try with an 800 see what happens, thanks for all your help.
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Post by Heath Daniel on Sept 16, 2008 12:47:01 GMT -5
Sounds like you are on the right track now. That's great. So the methanol main body passages were just to big hu? Interesting. Once you get your cfm where it needs to be you should really be flying. Sounds like you have a lot of parts at your disposal but if you need anything just give me a call. Be advised that the boosters in a standard Holley gasoline main body are on the small side for running E85, HPs are better but still smaller than optimum. I can get the E85 specific main bodies from Quick Fuels for the same price as the gas ones. You can go to 950 cfm with your 850 base plate if you wanted to. Thanks for the update and good luck at the track.
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Post by mpowerptg on Sept 24, 2008 12:37:29 GMT -5
ran this past weekend, we had great air, the car ran 10.28 @128.5 was very happy with these numbers, but the mph is still alittle low{ same as on gas} i think a larger cfm carb will fix this, what do you think? if i go to an 850 center, what do you think i should do wth the setup? im now running 86p 88 s with power valves in both ends, also, was interested in the difference in the set up for a 1050dominator, i see you have done a few that seem to work very well, thanks for all your help.
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Post by Heath Daniel on Sept 25, 2008 13:32:26 GMT -5
What was the "gas" main body you went with? Was it a stock Holley or something like a Proform? Your mph didn't increase because your boosters are probably maxed out. What c.i. is your motor and how many rpms do you usually turn? If you increase your cfm you would need to increase your jet size to maintain the optimum a/f ratio. You are jetted right for the 750 with power-valves now. If you go to a 850 your looking at bumping the jets up to the low to mid 90s. Do you have an 850 gas body? I can get you one set up for E85 with the right size boosters, air bleeds and squirters for the same price as a gas one if you like. The Dominator kits we sell and install are totally complete. They come with all the stuff you had to piece together to get your 4150 converted and then some. You basically change everything on the carb. but the main body and base plate. It even comes with green boosters.
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Post by mpowerptg on Oct 21, 2008 16:11:11 GMT -5
sorry it has been awhile, been real busy at the shop, i used a holley main body from a circle track engine we had here at the shop, was done by "blake" carburators. seem like it was kinda small, i think it was a short track fuel miliage carb. the engine is a 396 cu small block that turns 7200. i would like to try an 850 , what can you sell me one for? do thay have changable air bleeds? what do you think about using anular boosters? thanks again for all the help.
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Post by Heath Daniel on Oct 22, 2008 11:47:13 GMT -5
I can fix you up with an 850-E85 main body with drop down boosters for $200. It has interchangeable air bleeds and comes with ones that are properly sized for E85 already installed as well as accelerator pump nozzles. Annular boosters take up room in the venturi so an 850 will be more like an 800. They atomize fuel well but are mainly used in the bigger carbs like Dominators. I can check on the price for one with annular boosters if you like, just let me know.
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