Blown Injected 565 tuning

[blownhalfton]

Looking for some help with my tune..ive already blown a set of cometics and lifted the top ring gland on #4 &5 pistons. Starting over. Just installed MSD knock sensor.

here is the setup that i have right now

My set up
565BBC
enderle bird catcher
38 nozzels
100 main pill
80A-1 pump
Moonyham 10-71 w/teflon
60 bottom pulley-49 top pulley
800-800 lift 277-292 duration
MSD 7 digital locked timing 35*

[F/C-pilot]

Just off the top of my head (and I know I should never do this) the pill seams like it might be a little big at first glance. What does the pump flow? Was this on the dyno or track? How many RPM's are you spinning?

I don't have my notes in front of me, but I built a 427 Chevy with that size nozzle, a -1 pump (can't remember if it was an Enderle or a Hilborn), a 6-71 and a pill close to what you are running. Unfortunately I never got to really dial it in (as that setup was on the safe AKA fat side) so I am just going off of that for comparison.

I look forward to hearing what Adam thinks as he is a little more versed than I am.

Paul

[blownhalfton]

F/C pilot.....i belive the pump is 6 gpm.. and we are spinning the motot to 7000 right now. I ran tonight at the track.. i decided to start with 28* timing and a 95 pill it looked a little lean to me so we went to a 90 and picked up a bit so its liking the fuel.. my knock indicator stayed in the green the whole time and as i added fuel it indicated even less

[adamsvega]

JUST A FEW QUESTIONS TO GET ME ON PAGE WITH YOUR SET UP WILL HELP
DID YOU FLOW THIS SYSTEM AND HAVE YOU RUN IT ON GAS OR METH. BEFORE E-85 / CORN?

THE SPECIFIC GRAVITY AND IDEAL RATIO'S ARE ALL DIFFERENT AND I HAVE RUN INTO A FEW SET UPS THAT THE PUMP WAS JUST TO BIG /SMALL FOR THE COMBO .
AS TRUE PUMP GRADE RANGE FROM 70-89% ETHANOL AND THAT FALLS IN A RANGE JUST OUT OF NORM.


WHAT % FUEL ?

Pump flow GPM @ RPM


Is the blower case standard bore?:

Standard or high-helix rotors?:

Blower Exit type (open bottom, delta, delta-retro, etc.?

Rotor seal condition?


Hat Type:

Barrel Valve type/brand:

Nozzle type/brand:

Hat nozzle sizes:

Port nozzle sizes:

Hat size (bug, bird, shotgun, etc.):

Exhaust type (collector or zoomie):

Static compression:

Aluminum or iron heads


Head FLOW?

Valve sizes:



Cam type (solid roller, flat tappet, etc.):

Cam lobe center:

In. & Ex. duration @ .050":

Intake valve closes (@.050"):

Clutch or converter?

Converter stall RPM:

Vehicle weight:

Rear gear ratio:

Transmission low gear ratio:

Rear tire diameter:

Launch RPM:

Shift RPM:

Finish line RPM:

[adamsvega]

THE BIG MYTH .... like manhood.... bigger pumps is always better ....wrong
you want a pump ,nozzle and bypass combo to flow what ya need for your h/p at rpm
....high psi atomization only helps above 50 psi . if you size it right you should have a 100-85 bypass. this makes start up easy gives you room for pump wear and lineir tune up point .. if you switch to e-85 and tune and ya need a big bypass say 150-200 you recycle alot of fuel it heats up in the small tank and starts to airrate with the volume being returned ......not good consistency will go out the window and your afr will be different each pass as the fuel temp rise
so say ya tune it and your psi is low but afr is right. you small up the nozzles to and the bypass to keep it right .......

[blownhalfton]

Adam here is some of the info you asked for

the system was not flowed. i bought it from Goodvibrations and they set me up for E85

only run E85

standrd bore ,regular rotors w/6 strips teflon in excelent shape, and standard opening rectangular and intake cut to match blower

bird catcher, square style valve, 38 nozzels, 30% barrel valve setting, r style nozzles, main jet 90 (right now)

2 1/4 headers and 4" exhaust magnaflow mufflers dump infront of rearend

10-1 static compression, Aluminum Brodix 2X, 2.300 intake 1.88 exhaust, flow 360cfm @ .800, CNC ported by brodix, intake match ported to head

solid roller .800-.800 114* 277-292 @.050 intake close 70 ABDC

3800 stall, Bruno drive w/2sp lenco, 488 gears w/17x33 107"
rollout

launch 3500, shift 7000, 6400 rpm finish 1/8th mile

4400lbs w/driver

with the 80 pill i broke in to the 5's @116 knock sensor showed 1-2 bars @28 degrees locked timing

wow i should have studied for this test....thanks for the help

[adamsvega]

OK FIRST WAS 38'S AND 100 PILL WITH 35DEG.'S?
NOW YA GOT IT DOWN TO A 80 PILL AND 28 DEG. AND IT SHOWED THE LEAST KNOCK (2 BAR GREEN)AND BEST ET/MPH?

JUST OFF THE TOP OF MY HEAD ON METHANOL YOU PUMP WONT WORK. YOUR MOTOR WANTS 5.84 GPM ...... ON E-85 IT WANTS 3.76 GPM .
WITH 38 NOZZLES AND A TRUE 6GPM/4000 PUMP RPM YOUR AT ABOUT 150 PSI AT SHIFT POINT WITH A 80 PILL AND PUTTING 1300 LB/HR ON YOUR 1278 REQUIRED .
AS LONG AS YOUR RETURN DOES NOT FEED THE PUMP AT 150 PSI YOUR OK
SO I DOUBT BY MY TOP OF HEAD MATH THAT IT WAS A FUEL RELATED FAILURE SOUNDS MORE OF TOO MUCH TIMING VS DYNAMIC COMPRESSION . I WOULD GO TO A 40/42 NOZZLE AND 87/98 PILL TO GIVE YA SOME ROOM IF GOING TO A .068 PILL KEEPS THE KNOCK AWAY AND MORE MPH .
ONCE WE GET IT HAPPY WHERE THE ET/MPH WONT GET FASTER GOING RICH THAN YOU CAN ADD A H/S BLEED FOR 1/4 MILE ACTION . OR JUST SPLIT THE DIFF. FOR 1/8 MPH SO IT IS CONSISTENT
YOUR AT 1100 H/P AND ON YOUR WAY
PS AT 4400 POUNDS YOU DRIVETRAIN IS A MAINTINENCE ITEM LEND ME THAT BULLET AND I COULD GO 7.90 IN THE WAGON

[blownhalfton]

thanks adam my thinking is along the same line. Im not going to be running Meth. E85 only

when i burnt it i was running a 110 pill and 35* @14 psi boost

and i told u wrong im running a 90 pill and it picked up .04 on et and 2mph from a 95 pill

i was already thinking i needed more nozzle..i will change them out for some 42's

i had droped the boost since i burnt it and im running 11 psi for now till i get this beast under control. Im hoping i can puch some more boost

In your opinion how much boost will E85 handle with 10-1

[adamsvega]

it is more along the lines of the cam timing events givving you cyl psi v.s the volume of air forced in .
at 1 bar your really safe . we ran 24 +psi on 89% pump and then the owner was scared to push the envolope and switched to rocket brand and 28+ pounds
. the big thing is heat with no intercooler you just keep adding fuel up top till it wont mph any more and if ya got ping boost retard it, then add more fuel .
the turbo 275dr car has 3 seperate nozzles before the carb for water/methanol injection on boost timing controller .works great
( dont use staight meth at high psi see previos blower posts) no intercooler and no ping 32psi now . we just played the index game last night and went 10.00 @146 leaving hard and killing boost and running the top end all out

[adamsvega]

go to a 80 pill and try it first it will give me a flow percent to set up the next nozzles if the 42 and 98 pill are still off. .all the formulas i have are for methanol and/or %nitro . so i have to do a % drop on fuel weight required to get one number and then punch up orfice size and pump and adjust the v/e to get the psi and bypass size . all pumps are flowed at 4000 pump speed and 100 psi with an ideal 100 bypass . that is why at those sizes you get a 1 to .001 pill change for ideal air density percent or 450 ft corrected altitude change . and as e-85 is a alky based fuel its max torgue comes fat and max h/p comes .5 leaner ( tune it once in the middle for 1/8 mile and it stays deadly) if you change tracks /weather drastically move the pill accordingly when the afr gets too far out and set the b/v again to be snappy . always measure the tunrbuckle with calipers and reference that setting with your tune up . you end up with 3 pills and lenths and can change at will in 5 min. when this is all said and done

[blownhalfton]

Thanks..ill try the 80 and see what we get

[raceman]

found this tread wery intressting since i setting up a similar but a little milder combo

but being a newbie both to E-85 and mech injection
i wonder if anyone hev the time to see if i got the stuff that i need from my supplier all injection parts bougt brand new

572cui merlin talldeck shortblock

WHAT % FUEL ? 85% racing type blend hope to get a more stable blend then from the pump a little more expensive but still a lot cheaper than racegas over here

Pump flow GPM @ RPM std enderle 80-a


Is the blower case standard bore?: standard 8-71

Standard or high-helix rotors?: standard

Blower Exit type (open bottom, delta, delta-retro, etc.? open

Rotor seal condition? good only 8 runs since new


Hat Type: bird cathcer

Barrel Valve type/brand: square style valve enderle

Nozzle type/brand: TOP NOZZLE BODY R TYPE

Hat nozzle sizes: 30/36

Port nozzle sizes:

Hat size (bug, bird, shotgun, etc.): bird

Exhaust type (collector or zoomie): colector with a small muffler just for the rules

Static compression: 8,5:1

Aluminum or iron heads rectangular iron merlins


Head FLOW? 370@0,700

Valve sizes: 2,30/1,88

Cam type (solid roller, flat tappet, etc.): solid roller

Cam lobe center: 110

lobe sparation 114

In. & Ex. duration @ .050": in 268/ ex276 lift668/699

Intake valve closes (@.050"):64 a.b.d.c

Clutch or converter? converter

Converter stall RPM: stall 4000

Vehicle weight: 2650

Rear gear ratio: 4,33

Transmission low gear ratio: 1,76

Rear tire diameter: 32

Launch RPM: 3600

Shift RPM: 5800

Finish line RPM: 6500

all help greatly appriciated

[triplenickel]

Hey Adam, while on the subject of mechanical fuel injection, I would like to know if you have a suggestion of a nozzle/pill combination for E-85. I have a 555 in a dragster with a terminator running methanol. Currently have 40 nozzle jets & 76 pill with a zero & a half enderle type pump. Have PG w/1.74 low & 4.11 gear,17X33.5, 106". Motor has Dart 355 heads. 6200 stall, 3800 launch, 7200 shift, 7500 trap, quarter mile. Any help much appreciated.

[adamsvega]

a forty nozzle on a 0.5 pump .....hummmm do you have a o2?
on the small block stuff it ends up dropping 12-15% to start . i got no data here at work so if you drop to 33 dia. you will still be way fat as your psi will go up. i run 28's in my car from 35's now with a .085 pill

[triplenickel]

No o2, just EGT. EGT runs about 1215 to 1220 in 1/4 mile. Was running 80 pill & went to 76, but saw very little change, slightly better 60' and 330'. Only a couple degree change to EGT.