Message Board - Looking for E98 fuel

MCM
New Member

member is offline

[avatar]

Joined: Mar 2009
Gender: Male

Posts: 14
Location: Detroit
Karma: 0

Looking for E98 fuel - SE Michigan
« Thread Started on Feb 11, 2010, 12:36pm »

Will hopefully be dyno testing my engine soon, and would like to get some E98 to sweeten the winter blend fuel that is currently at the local pumps. Does anyone know who might have some in the area?

Link to Post - Back to Top IP:

Logged

Mike M.

ADAMSVEGAWORK
Guest

Re: Looking for E98 fuel - SE Michigan
« Reply #1 on Feb 12, 2010, 6:19am »

someone will post up soon ! did ya ever get it to calm down on the launch?

Link to Post - Back to Top IP:

Logged

1outlaw
Senior Member

member is offline

Joined: Jul 2009
Gender: Male

Posts: 315
Karma: 4

Re: Looking for E98 fuel - SE Michigan
« Reply #2 on Feb 12, 2010, 11:16am »

Here is a thread discussion on this topic over at E85 performance- (I am "alcohol" there)

http://www.e85performance.net/forums/showthread.php?p=4067#post4067

« Last Edit: Feb 12, 2010, 11:17am by 1outlaw »

Link to Post - Back to Top IP:

Logged

MCM
New Member

member is offline

[avatar]

Joined: Mar 2009
Gender: Male

Posts: 14
Location: Detroit
Karma: 0

Re: Looking for E98 fuel - SE Michigan
« Reply #3 on Feb 12, 2010, 8:34pm »

I found this place to the north of me that has E98 for $4 a gallon. I'll be stopping by there Monday to pick up a 55 gallon drum on my way back home from snowmobiling:

http://www.fairgroveoil.com/e98.html

Feb 12, 2010, 6:19am, ADAMSVEGAWORK wrote:

did ya ever get it to calm down on the launch?

In addition to the wheelie bars I put on the car last year, I'm installing a digital programmable ignition box where I can pull timing out at the launch to kill some torque, and ramp it back in once I'm under way. Looking forward to getting it sorted out in the spring.

Link to Post - Back to Top IP:

Logged

Mike M.

1outlaw
Senior Member

member is offline

Joined: Jul 2009
Gender: Male

Posts: 315
Karma: 4

Re: Looking for E98 fuel - SE Michigan
« Reply #4 on Feb 12, 2010, 10:47pm »

Excellent MCM -- the one guy in the other thread I linked mentioned that place- good deal !

Link to Post - Back to Top IP:

Logged

MCM
New Member

member is offline

[avatar]

Joined: Mar 2009
Gender: Male

Posts: 14
Location: Detroit
Karma: 0

Re: Looking for E98 fuel - SE Michigan
« Reply #5 on Feb 13, 2010, 12:20am »

Feb 12, 2010, 10:47pm, 1outlaw wrote:

Excellent MCM -- the one guy in the other thread I linked mentioned that place- good deal !

I just read it. I didn't realize how tough this stuff was to find. I guess I should be fortunate that I can get it this "close".

After some research I discovered an ethanol plant is located in Caro, MI, which is only a short distance from Fairgrove. The guy at Fairgrove told me to call him an hour or so before I come there to get it since he has to go pick it up. Sounds to me like I'll be getting some fresh fuel. 8-)

Link to Post - Back to Top IP:

Logged

Mike M.

1outlaw
Senior Member

member is offline

Joined: Jul 2009
Gender: Male

Posts: 315
Karma: 4

Re: Looking for E98 fuel - SE Michigan
« Reply #6 on Feb 13, 2010, 12:50pm »

Feb 13, 2010, 12:20am, MCM wrote:

Feb 12, 2010, 10:47pm, 1outlaw wrote:

Excellent MCM -- the one guy in the other thread I linked mentioned that place- good deal !

I just read it. I didn't realize how tough this stuff was to find. I guess I should be fortunate that I can get it this "close".

After some research I discovered an ethanol plant is located in Caro, MI, which is only a short distance from Fairgrove. The guy at Fairgrove told me to call him an hour or so before I come there to get it since he has to go pick it up. Sounds to me like I'll be getting some fresh fuel. 8-)

E98 fuel grade ethanol is all over the country in massive quanities- the problem getting it is that it is in facilities that do not lend themselves to measuring out and filling a drum. It is also generally owned by brokers and oil companies that have little interest in small lot sales. Even in an ethanol plant it is not easy to access the product for easy drumming. In their tank farm the only tap is often the quality control/lab tap which is too near the floor to even think about doing a drum. In the plant itself the best tap is again the lab/quality control tap coming off of the molecular sieve for annydrous ethanol 200 proof. Problem here at the mole sieve is 3 fold- 1) this is a flowing, untested dynamic product which only give the lab a window of quality flowing by- moistures vary from very dry (2/10 of 1 % moisture) to approx 1.5% moisture--so lab must test this drum , 2) at this tap it lacks corrosion inhibitor so it must be added in via hand measurement of very tiny quanities, 3) the barrel being filled must be hand poisoned with gas to keep it legal and the BATF happy. Because of these issues it is generally better to pull the drum lot from the tank farm tap or let the E98 get loaded onto a friendly jobber's semi to go to his tank farm where he might have a drum filling capability (rare case). Nearly everywhere E98 is handled it is piped via 4" pipe flowing 450 gal/minute and interlocked with a Sculley overfill device that prevents drum friendly fillling. Furthermore most ethanol plants only sell to what is called an "IRS oil terminal" --meaning that the E98 is sold tax free to the oil company who is then responsible to add the tax, gain the credit, and pay the IRS and state. Since that is the case many ethanol plants will not have the tax license or knowledge of how to collect the tax at retail, handle an off-road exemption, and pay the taxing agencies.

That is why while E98 is everywhere- there "is not a drop to drink" for your racecar in the E98 variety.

« Last Edit: Feb 13, 2010, 12:59pm by 1outlaw »

Link to Post - Back to Top IP:

Logged

MCM
New Member

member is offline

[avatar]

Joined: Mar 2009
Gender: Male

Posts: 14
Location: Detroit
Karma: 0

Re: Looking for E98 fuel - SE Michigan
« Reply #7 on Feb 16, 2010, 5:16pm »

I picked up the drum of E98 the other day at Fairgrove Oil (very nice family run business). The fuel has been sealed since it was blended and put in the drum back in August.

Feb 13, 2010, 12:50pm, 1outlaw wrote:

E98 fuel grade ethanol is all over the country in massive quanities- the problem getting it is that it is in facilities that do not lend themselves to measuring out and filling a drum. It is also generally owned by brokers and oil companies that have little interest in small lot sales. Even in an ethanol plant it is not easy to access the product for easy drumming. In their tank farm the only tap is often the quality control/lab tap which is too near the floor to even think about doing a drum. In the plant itself the best tap is again the lab/quality control tap coming off of the molecular sieve for annydrous ethanol 200 proof. Problem here at the mole sieve is 3 fold- 1) this is a flowing, untested dynamic product which only give the lab a window of quality flowing by- moistures vary from very dry (2/10 of 1 % moisture) to approx 1.5% moisture--so lab must test this drum , 2) at this tap it lacks corrosion inhibitor so it must be added in via hand measurement of very tiny quanities, 3) the barrel being filled must be hand poisoned with gas to keep it legal and the BATF happy. Because of these issues it is generally better to pull the drum lot from the tank farm tap or let the E98 get loaded onto a friendly jobber's semi to go to his tank farm where he might have a drum filling capability (rare case). Nearly everywhere E98 is handled it is piped via 4" pipe flowing 450 gal/minute and interlocked with a Sculley overfill device that prevents drum friendly fillling. Furthermore most ethanol plants only sell to what is called an "IRS oil terminal" --meaning that the E98 is sold tax free to the oil company who is then responsible to add the tax, gain the credit, and pay the IRS and state. Since that is the case many ethanol plants will not have the tax license or knowledge of how to collect the tax at retail, handle an off-road exemption, and pay the taxing agencies.

That is why while E98 is everywhere- there "is not a drop to drink" for your racecar in the E98 variety.

Very interesting reading. The guy that I dealt with at Fairgrove said that he has to mix the racing gas with the ethanol right at the plant.

Link to Post - Back to Top IP:

Logged

Mike M.

1outlaw
Senior Member

member is offline

Joined: Jul 2009
Gender: Male

Posts: 315
Karma: 4

Re: Looking for E98 fuel - SE Michigan
« Reply #8 on Feb 16, 2010, 10:40pm »

That is correct Mike-- NOTHING leaves the plant's borders without gas in it for poison. The BATF (Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms) is not to be messed with. Even though we have a pipeline to our rail siding a mile away-- we cannot even ship via the pipeline to our 6 million gallons of storage at the rail siding and poison it there. It must be poisoned first-every drop. Don't want any cheap 200 proof out there with no liquor taxes added

I don't think anyone in their right mind would drink it though-- even though it is in most ways purer than drinking liquor fuel grade does not have the fusel oils controlled in fermentation or removed thereafter because they do not matter in fuel. But if they would be high that day you could be blinded by consuming to much of it.

« Last Edit: Feb 16, 2010, 10:48pm by 1outlaw »

Link to Post - Back to Top IP:

Logged